Tell me about your early years and where you are from:

I come from a family of 5 - my parents are immigrants from Uganda (in East Africa) and I have a fraternal twin brother and an older sister. I’m from Mays Landing in Southern New Jersey. It’s a town nestled between Atlantic City (part of that infamous Jersey Shore coastline) and Philadelphia. People always assume I’m from the West Coast/California but I’m pretty Jersey. When I’m very angry OR when you hear me using the Garden State Parkway to describe where I’m from and where I went to college, it becomes pretty apparent. It was really important to my parents for us to grow up with a lot of outdoor space to explore, use our imaginations, “get up to no good”, etc.

What type of neighborhood did you grow up in?

Very middle class - I did not realize how “small” my town was until I left for college at 18. It seemed like such a big place for a large part of my life but when you move to Northern New Jersey and migrate to NYC, you quickly realize how humble your beginnings were and how much bigger the world can feel outside of your hometown bubble. What do your parents mean to you? EVERYTHING. FULL STOP. Like many immigrants, they started with very little when they first came to the U.S.. They worked so hard to give my sibling and I opportunities and never failed to give us perspective. They are brutally honest. I don’t think anyone in the world can compete. They don’t hold back and this has spilled into who I am in certain aspects of my life. For better or for worse. In Teyana Taylor’s words, “You are the highlight of my life. You are the sunshine in my night. Oh how, oh how, oh, how do I ever repay you?!” They always say we owe them nothing but I spend a lot of time thinking about how best to repay them someday. They are very generous, they are kind, they are as real as they come. I love you BIG mom & dad!

Tell me more about your journey to becoming comfortable in your own skin? Specifically, do you remember the first time you felt different or “other”? Walk me through that.

OMG, my earliest memory of feeling different or “other” was when I was walking home from elementary school. I was maybe 6 or 7 and a white, little girl/neighbor asked why my hair was so different from hers. She had gorgeous long hair that she often pulled back in a very long and neat braid. I remember going home and touching and pulling at my short, coarse hair. I became SO jealous of her. That was the beginning of a very complicated relationship. I then started putting shirts on my head to give myself “hair”. My older sister and I started doing this for an extended period of time. We had “hair” that touched our shoulders and it felt good to pretend that we had hair that had some “body” and movement.

Did you ever feel pressured to surround yourself with people who look like you OR didn’t look like you?

I never felt pressured to surround myself with people who did or didn’t look like me. I fell into a crowd naturally and that crowd happened to be a majority of white faces. I don’t regret that one bit. I got a lot of flak for this from other Black people I grew up with. I got tormented for having white friends as if I had explicitly chosen to not have Black friends. At the end of the day, I was ridiculed so badly for it that after a while it was hard to convince myself to try and diversify my circle after being mistreated for SO long. I was tormented long enough to feel like I didn’t belong in a group of people who looked more like me. Middle school and high school were the saddest and most confusing time of my life. I was made fun of for being dark-skinned by other Black classmates and I was pushed away for having some white friends. It was horrible. I just couldn’t win.

Do you have a defining moment of your childhood that has shaped you into the person you are today?

Yes, 2 things come to mind:

Going off of what I said before about being ridiculed and mistreated. I was made fun of and tormented for a very long time. People from all different backgrounds made fun of my very dark skin color but I mainly got tortured by kids that were also Black. I never got a break. I was reminded of how “dark and ugly” I was. School assemblies were the worst - I hated winning awards and having to go on stage. There were so many times I wanted to leave class early in middle school and high school to quickly get to the next class in an effort to avoid being made fun of in the hallway. Because of these experiences, I vowed to be better to people. I’m obsessed with making people feel good. I’m not perfect, far from it but I really love to see people smile and to know they feel comfortable around me. I cried and fake smiled for A LOT of years so I made a promise to myself a long time ago that is centered around a Maya Angelou quote: People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.

We were a big sports family. We LOVED sports and since my twin brother played everything under the sun, I was always drawn to playing the same sports he played. I remember early on in my childhood, before signing up for recreational sports, my Dad would ask “Is this REALLY something you want to do? If so, we’re signing you up and you will give it your all.” The fact that he asked me this SO many times as a child and adolescent really stuck with me. When I say I’m going to do something, I do it. I don’t just do it - I aim to do it very well. That goes for my job, being a friend, etc. If i tell you I’m going to hang out with you, it pains me to half ass that. I rarely cancel on people - that’s just one of many examples.

What generation American are you, how has it influenced your life and how has it impacted how much you embrace your family culture? I'm a first generation Ugandan-American. My feelings towards being Ugandan have been on quite the roller coaster ride. As a kid, without much understanding and very little life experience, I embraced it, I fully lived it. As I got older and started getting made fun of, I resented it. I HATED it so badly. It pains me to say that today. I hated who I was and what I looked like because it caused me so much heartache amongst my peers. After high school, I really grew to love all of the things that make me who I am [Ugandan]. I love how animated we are, how Ugandans love a good speech and a good story, the fact that my parents happen to be from the same tribe and speak the same dialect, how we value tradition, being a good host, telling the honest truth, family, etc. It took a long time to get to this point and I’m so happy with where I’ve landed. What role did food play in your family growing up? Food played a HUGE role. As Ugandans, food is the way to everyone’s heart. I always giggle at how honest we are about the food we cook. It feels as though it's a death sentence if it doesn’t taste good. I consider my mom an amazing cook but to this day if she feels that she didn’t put everything into a meal she made, she will announce it to the group she cooked for. If there’s an ingredient change to the dishes my mom has been making us since we were kids, we let her know/she expects the feedback. See, there goes that honesty I talked about... Who understands you the best in your family? Dear Anne..oh sweet, Anne! The most dynamic human of the bunch - my mother. We are SO alike in SO many ways. She birthed herself, that’s for sure! We both have such high expectations. Go ahead and tell us we cannot do something - GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK. I REPEAT...GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK! Is there anything from your childhood that pulled you in the direction of your career? I guess. I’ve always been a social butterfly and really enjoy helping people wade through their problems. I’m also a big goal-setter so appreciate quota attainment and the journey it takes to get there. As an Account Manager, I’m part fixer, part relationship and trust builder, all while having a goal to hit. It’s a pretty good recipe for someone like me. Tell me about your first love and how your idea of love and relationships has evolved since then (or how it hasn’t). My first love was someone who did not love and respect me. It makes me so sad to say that but if not for him, I would have never known what my deal breakers are, right? I was 19 and he was a white man who was slightly older than me. He lived in NYC, had a great job, a decent apartment and a big group of friends. I was so attracted to the very “adult life” he was living in Manhattan. He had all of the power though. He told me when he wanted to hang out, where he wanted to hang out, when HE would “make things official”, what things I needed to do in order to convince him I was “girlfriend material”. He strung me along for 2 years. Over those 2 years, I noticed his obsession with how I was perceived by his friends and family. He watched me like a hawk and I didn’t think too much about it. In the end, he took me to a restaurant in Time Square, bought us a bottle of wine and told me I wasn’t good enough. He literally bought a bottle of wine, like it was a celebration, to tell me that after much consideration and many attempts to picture a life with me, he couldn’t move forward because I’m Black and he is white. When you’re still so young and someone decides to break your heart into pieces and attack something like your skin, your DNA, the effects of what happened that day run deep. I actually believed I wasn’t worthy of love after that moment because of what I look like. It was horrible. My biggest takeaway was that for too long I let other people dictate what I thought my value was. My stock doesn’t decrease based on someone’s inability to see my worth. It’s important that we work to see and believe in our own value so that people like this guy don’t ever entertain the idea of “wining and dining” you just to tell you that you’re not worth it. Are you currently in a relationship? If so, tell me about your significant other and what you love most about them. I am married to my boyfriend, Nick. We’re so different for a number of reasons but where I’m lacking, he makes up. I love the fact that he is an honest person but in the best way. He won’t do something he doesn’t believe in. He will walk away cold. That comes from his unwavering confidence that has always seemed to exist. Not sure what it takes to parent in a way that will ensure your kids have that much confidence but I can’t wait to see it unfold before my eyes when he becomes a father someday. If you’re in an interracial relationship, what has been your biggest lesson as a couple? How easy or difficult has it been to educate them on being a minority in America/your culture? How easy or difficult has it been to integrate them into your culture? Nick and I come from 2 very different worlds, in my opinion. For starters, he’s a white dude from New Zealand and I’m a Black, first-gen woman from Jersey. All of the irrational fears I had growing up about someday having to integrate someone into my culture/family, never surfaced with Nick. He was easy from the start. He embraces my culture and my family and is always open to learning, understanding and growing. What would you like to make more time for in your life and why? Outside of needing more hours in a day to interview and share stories, I would like to make more time to cook. I cook but not consistently and I’ve also never baked a single thing in my life. Cooking allows you to be nurturing, goal oriented and creative! Plus, my mom is a great cook - she can cook anything and she works really hard to nurture her meals and to make sure they taste amazing. She would be really upset if I didn’t take more time to pursue this! What are you afraid of and why? A sudden death that could rob me of telling the people I love, how much they mean to me. I’m trying to get better at professing my love more frequently! I’m really terrified of this. To my heartbeats, I love you, I love you, I LOVE YOU!!! What do you value most in a friendship? What does friendship mean to you? I put a lot of weight on my friendships. I value humor, empathy and unwavering support. There are “friends” who say they’ll support you and you very quickly realize that’s not the case. A friend who genuinely roots for me, is a friend for life. My friends are like sisters as I ‘ve had a very complicated relationship with my own sister. I love her to death but there are various things that have kept us from understanding each other better and being closer to one another. We’re actively working on it though and I love her unconditionally! I rely on my friends the way you would rely on family. In retrospect, being able to have deep friendships like this sort of feels like a privilege when I think about it in comparison to my parents. I don’t think my parents could say the same now but for most of my childhood, I took note of how much they really relied on one another. That was it. They never really had the same friendships that I’ve fostered in my life which I think has something to do with being immigrants. They spent a large chunk of time working to give us the best life possible. That was their sole focus for a very long time, leaving very little time to meet new people. In the last few years my dad has gotten really into cigars and has met a big group of friends through the cigar shop where he spends a lot of time as of late. He recently told me how happy he is to have this new-found crew...how happy he is to have friends again. When he told me this, I cried that night (happy tears of course!). What do you struggle with on a day-to-day basis? I struggle daily with looking for myself in other people. I have to work on this a lot or else I feel intense disappointment. I’m constantly thinking things like “well I was honest..why weren’t they?” OR “I dropped everything to be here so why couldn’t they?” I have to work at this every, single day. What have you always wanted to try? Something related to making music. I really wish I could play an instrument. My dad’s side of the family is musically talented and they play or have played instruments. Am I too old to learn how to play drums or the piano? If you had to spend $10K today, how would you spend it? BLACK.LIVES.MATTER. If you started your own non-profit, what would it be? This is a very easy answer for me. I would start a non-profit organization that brings awareness to the effects of bullying on school-aged children. I thought I was bullied pretty badly but back when I was an adolescent there were not nearly as many avenues for bullying as there are now. Cyber bullying is a very scary reality for parents today. I would want to devote time to teaching children to be kind to one another and why it’s important. Given the choice of anyone in the world, dead or alive, whom would you want as a dinner guest? My paternal grandfather, Dr. Yona Okoth. He was the Archbishop of the Episcopalian Church of Uganda and lived such a full and interesting life. In the 1970s, he escaped death and the wrath of Ugandan dictator, Idi Amin. He died when I was really young and not old enough to understand his legacy. I’d do anything to have a 1:1 dinner with him today, as an adult. What’s your favorite viral video? 1-2x a week I play the viral video of the 2 littles boys, one black and one white, hugging each other on a NYC sidewalk. I tear up every time because it’s a blatant reminder of how hate is learned. What song really gets you going? Bumpin’ that Burna Boy ALWAYS! Still trying to hold onto summer with those island vibes of ‘Ye’. What are you most insecure about? My legs. I had a bad relationship with food in high school and always used my legs as a benchmark of how I felt about my body. I would spend hours looking at them and picking them apart in this floor-length mirror that was kept in a spare bedroom. That mirror still exists in my parents house. It no longer has all of the power that it did all those years ago. I’m so grateful for that. What’s the title of your quarter-life biography? The Only Way is Through would be the title. Through pain you will gain power; through sadness you will realize what it takes to be happy; through challenges you will know what it takes to see something through; through feeling you know what it means to truly live. I had to use a fairly recognizable quote to explain this - it was the only way! I had to experience a variety of things in order to get to this point where I encourage other women to share their stories as well. If i didn’t go through some of the painful, uncomfortable and even positive experiences, I wouldn’t be the person I am today. If you had to live in another country, for a year, where would it be? It would probably be New Zealand, where my husband is from. Shout out to the land of the long, white cloud! Another option would be Spain. I’d love to have a stint in Europe for a period of time. I used to be conversational in Spanish when I was in college so it would be amazing to get my Spanish back. Although, there are apps that could help me become fluent again - I’ll add this to the list. What relationship do you think needs work in your life? My relationship with my sister needs the most work. However, since the start of the pandemic, we’ve gotten much closer and it makes me incredibly happy. Regardless of how different we are, there is something to be said about the members of your immediate family - no one else will be able to truly understand you in the way that they do. Your shared experiences run so deep that it almost feels impossible to not make your way back to them after being apart for so long. What’s something you discovered about yourself in quarantine and/or the biggest lesson learned, thus far? I shaved my head at the beginning of all of this - I’m BALD. I’m a bald woman who is married to a bald man. When we meet new people we always joke around and say that they must refer to us as “that bald couple” if they can’t remember our names right away. Being able to say that and laugh uncontrollably is growth. 10 years ago, I would have never been so comfortable with this decision. I’ve learned and continue to learn to be comfortable with me and who I am. There’s very few opinions out there that I take to heart - the list is getting shorter by the minute and it feels AH-MAZING! What does black lives matter/the current human rights movement and protests mean to you? I watched the video of George Floyd dying and countless others and I see them but I also see my twin brother and myself. That could be US. It’s a feeling I cannot put into words. Chris Rock said it best: But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like … pilots. Ya know, American Airlines can’t be like, “Most of our pilots like to land. We just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains. Please bear with us.” It’s so important that we continue to fight. It’s an inside job. It’s really difficult for this country to look in the mirror and we’re going to need all of the help we can get. More people have to be all-in in order to end racially targeted violence and pull apart white supremacy. It’s time to fix the broken system in which Black people struggle, all because of what they look like. What’s your superpower? Empathy - I truly believe in it’s power. With empathy, it’s obviously impossible to see someone’s thoughts, but if you understand the depth of their feelings, you can predict their behavior. You can avoid a lot of messes that way. Empathy is the one skill that AI cannot replicate (thank goodness!). It allows us to form deeper bonds faster. It allows us to make better decisions. It’s so important in my opinion. How old are you at heart? I honestly think it depends on the day. I think sometimes I’m my actual age of 31 and other times I’m a hyperactive 12-year-old child LOL. All 12-year-old streaks come to an end because honey, it’s TIRING [that’s my 31-year-old self speaking!]. If you could re-do one day in your life, which would it be and why? My wedding day. It was truly one of the best days of my life. It was a perfect mix of NIck and I which I loved . Also, as they say, when else will all of the people you love be in the same room to celebrate you, outside of your funeral? How do you want to be seen? How do you want to be remembered? I want to be seen and remembered as someone who always rises/rose to the occasion. Whether it was to be a friend, to be a daughter, to be a sister, to be a storyteller, etc. I want people to know that I literally put my all into things regardless of the outcome. In the friendships I’ve forged, the meals I make, in my relationship and friendships...my goal has always been and will always be to show the F up. To give it everything I’ve got. That goes for growing and learning. I certainly don’t have everything figured out but I try and go above and beyond to educate myself on how to be better, stronger and just a more evolved human. I’m trying guys, I’m TRYINGGG! If you could speak to your younger self, what would you say?/Is there something that you know now and wish you knew when you were much younger? I know it’s hard but please try your best to live by the 5 x 5 rule. If it’s not going to matter in 5 years, don’t spend more than 5 minutes being upset about it. Is there anything else you’d like to add? Yes, of course! BLACK LIVES DO INDEED MATTER. Additional Questions? What was the last thing you Googled? “Proud boys wikipedia” (!) What was your mother right about all along? She told me never to get body piercings without consulting a dermatologist due to a history of keloids in our family. All I can say is I was desperate for a belly button piercing at 17 and it has caused me pain and discomfort all of these years later and I’ve had to have a series of surgeries because of it. You were right, Anne! You were so RIGHT! How old are you at heart? I honestly think it depends on the day. I think sometimes I’m my actual age of 31 and other times I’m a hyperactive 12-year-old child LOL. All 12-year-old streaks come to an end because honey, it’s TIRING [that’s my 31-year-old self speaking!]. Would you rather maintain a young mind or a young body? I guess a young body. I really want to continue to evolve, learn and grow. I don’t want my mind to become stagnant so I’m fine with it getting older - that means more wisdom, I think!